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Live Stream setup for hundreds maybe thousands of viewers?

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chuckster
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Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:46 am    Post subject: Live Stream setup for hundreds maybe thousands of viewers? Reply with quote

Hi, I'm new here and have been reading through the site for the last couple days but I'm more confused now than before probably because of the application I need streaming for.

We have a local event here which the website received about 25,000 viewers over a 3 day period. This year the event group wants to add live webcam streaming. They have two locations where they want cams but only one location will be active at any one time. The event is a race so a cam needs to be at the start and when all the starters have gone through the cam at the finish will be activated. No problem here.

I need to setup two IP Cameras, We have wireless internet connectivity through the local ISP and they said they could up the upload speed for us during the event, to what I'm not sure. We need to setup the cameras so when the user logs onto the website we can place maybe a CIF size live steam box in the corner so people can watch the event live. They desire audio as well but I'm not sure if this will be possible. THe camera needs to be placed in an outdoor heated enclosure due to location so if audio is possible we need the ability to add an external mic to be outside the enclosure.

We have a couple of the Gadspot GS1600 cameras but came to a conclusion that these are too lowend or do not work very well at we need. We want to integrate the video on the webpage with no user intervention required like prompting the user to install and active x control or whatever. It needs to be viewable by possibly thousands of users at once so I'm not sure the equipment I need to allow this to happen.

This appears to be the most informative and active site I could find so I'm sure there are people that could help with the hardware that would best fit our requirments.

Thank you so much for any help,
Chuck
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chuckster
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Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see 22 views but no feedback yet. Maybe I can get the conversation started.

I was reading here about someone using a flashplayer I think it was the surfing webcam that is using an Axis (??) webcam website that has a flashplayer. Would that work for us? Maybe we can use the Gadspot cam with a Flash player. The Gadspot cam outputs MJPEG so I'm not sure if this would cause an issue. Maybe the best choice is to use an Axis camera but which model would work best for an event group that is limited budget wise for this project?

The main server should be located directly at the ISP so it has the most bandwidth available but of course the webcams will not be.

Please help me make sense of this all.
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Dwayne
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Joined: 10 Sep 2007
Posts: 335

PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The flash version is not suitable for you.

In this solution, the picture gets uploaded to a ftp site and then is displayed from the webserver to the user. but you can get there a maximum frame rate of 2-5 images per frame rate. Considering your event, I guess you need a bit more than that.

considering 25000 + users you should think of a restreaming service, which is not that cheap.
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ICUSecurity
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Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 328

PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought I posted a reply to this..... Sorry...

You are not looking for an IP camrea.
You are looking for a dV cam capable of streaming on2 video.
Then you need to add adobe streaming media server...

While this isn't "Cheap" I am sure you can find someone to sponsor it for you.

-X
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4 Channel Video-Insight Software - $350
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chuckster
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Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies Dwayne and ICU.

The plan yes would be to upload the pics to an ftp server at about 1 frame every 5 seconds or so. Further meetings with the commitee I have convinced them that with a small $2k budget they will not get what they were hoping to get unless you think it is possible with this budget, I would think the equipment alone would get pricey.

I do not know anything about dV (Digital Video?) cams but I will search to see if I can find out more info. Would be awesome if you had a link to what you are refering to as it would provide me with a starting point.

Still wondering if our stand alone ip camera will work with a 1 frame every 5 seconds or so rate. This would significantly reduce the bandwidth requirements and they were talking about even spacing the frames more at least for this year. Over the summer they will invest in the infrastructure to better handle this next winter.

Thanks
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chuckster
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Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK new question. Smile

We got the NC1600 working (it's actually the NC and the GS) on the webpage however not without problems or concerns.

** It's not working in Firefox
** In IE you have to enable all your active X controls in order for the active x to load and then you can disable the settings again
** We're not sure about Netscape.

So the question. We need a dummyproof webcam that would work with all three of the browsers and that we can stream the image to. The browser must not complain about active x issues. Is there such an animal??? I need to be able to put it into an outdoor enclosure or it needs to be weather proof.

I've seen some webcams where there is a link to install a player of some sort and maybe this work as long as it is easy to install so we're not getting call from all over the world stating that the cam is not working for them.

Thank you so much for your help, there are so many cameras and we can't buy them all to test.

Chuck
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ICUSecurity
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Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 328

PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

its kinda like people who walk around going "I want a race car, I want a race car" then then go pick up a civic and expect it to go fast...

-X
_________________
For Sale
32 Aimetis Standard Channel - $90 ea
OR buy with servers (Dell) and save!!

4 Channel Video-Insight Software - $350
8 Channel Video-Insight Capture Card - 1,000
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chuckster
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Joined: 16 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That was helpful....Thanks Rolling Eyes
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Dwayne
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Joined: 10 Sep 2007
Posts: 335

PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, not everyone is like that, but it gives a digit on his posting counter.

As I told you in my PM I can provide you with all you need.

After the cam only uploads time stamped filenames you need a php script which renames the latest file to a static name and deletes the others.

I can also send you a flash player who keeps refreshing the images. In the website you integrate the php script with inframe and refresh it constantly.

this does not solve the problem that the images will be filling the server if noone is watching, so you need to call the php script all couple of minuts. this can be easily achived with a cron job.

if your web host does not provide you with a cronjob I can set one up for you at a free cron job provider here in germany, but I am sure there are others out there in english.

there you go. you have a browser independend viewing system.

Send me your email adress via pm, I send you all needed files, so you can figure out the rest.
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ICUSecurity
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Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 328

PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chuckster wrote:
That was helpful....Thanks Rolling Eyes


Chuck,
I have done video recording, and streaming of drag racing, paintball, lacrosse, and MMA. And I have tried just about every trick in the world when it comes to security cameras and live video feeds and the fact is it just doesn't work like it should...

If you would of took my advice in the first place, walked into anywhere.. say.. walmart and paid $300 for a Digital Video camera, you could of took advantage of flash streaming video.

"But whats that" it is a process where you take video file, that is say 10 megs and shrink it down to something that is under a meg and host it on a remote server.

So rather then 1 picture every 5 seconds, you could be streaming 300fps w/sound if you wanted too for no more bandwidth then what you are using now.

Now granted there are a few stipulations with a dV cam, like it requires a local computer, usually a laptop. and hell, maybe it wont work at all since you think it needs to be mounted in an enclosure, however I have never been to a race where there wasn't someone at the beginning of the race working that couldn't watch the camera...

The other huge benefit of the dV cam is the ability to edit post event. So if you had say 200 hours of footage you would be able to easily edit all of the video and burn it on to DVD, or upload it to YouTube so anyone who was actually there could later go back and see themselves... Its amazing what people pay to see themselves on TV..

As far as your $2000 budget, even if you had to buy a laptop

Laptop - 700
DV Cam - 500
DV cam "Outdoor kit + podium" 200
Extention Wire - 100
Tapes for backup - 50

more then enough to do audio + video through a flash server in real time.

Lets face it, how long would you watch a 720 frame per hour video stream with no audio?

---------------------------------------------

As far as dwayne... Bringing up my post count yet again? Like I said, the only reason my post count is that high is because I have been here active longer then anyone else.. well.. other then wes of course.. You out post me almost 2:1.

Me:
Total posts: 298
[5.55% of total / 0.64 posts per day]

You:
Total posts: 124
[2.31% of total / 0.91 posts per day]
Find all posts by Dwayne

In the past 5 months you have posted more then anyone else on this site.
In the past 5 months you have posted more then people who have been here since early 06.
I don't know why you keep bringing this up..
Post count means nothing to me, there is no prize for being number one
When I talk to a client, it gains me no ground..

Fact is this is just one of the forums I visit while I'm stuck in my office doing office work..

-Chris

-x
_________________
For Sale
32 Aimetis Standard Channel - $90 ea
OR buy with servers (Dell) and save!!

4 Channel Video-Insight Software - $350
8 Channel Video-Insight Capture Card - 1,000
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Dwayne
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Joined: 10 Sep 2007
Posts: 335

PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ICU: <)))o><
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chuckster
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Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ICUSecurity wrote:
chuckster wrote:
That was helpful....Thanks Rolling Eyes


If you would of took my advice in the first place, walked into anywhere.. say.. walmart and paid $300 for a Digital Video camera, you could of took advantage of flash streaming video.

-x


Well, this event is for a dog sled race so temperatures would be rather chilly to say the least. The race starts on main street so 1 camera will be mounted on a light post which has power and I am teaming with a local wireless ISP to provide the internet connectivity to the cameras. The 2nd camera will be mounter at the finish line where it will only be made active once the first racers are about to arrive.

This event last 3 days because the longest race is 250 miles long. I don't think a local laptop or what not would be feasable. This is why I need an outdoor heated enclosure for this activity. This is the first year camera will be tested for this event and it's really a try it out to see what the response is like. Next year maybe the infrastructure gets an upgrade to be better prepared for a more lively internet show.

I'm trying to live with the IP Cameras we have now. Dwayne has been very helpful with his experiences. I'm trying to give his ideas a shot to see if we can make it work satisfactory. I hope we can.

Chuck
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chuckster
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Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has anyone ever used the FTP feature of this NC1600/GS1600 camera?

I can't seem to get this feature working. I know that this camera has a time sync problem and I'm not the only one but I can't find any info on the FTP of image files which supposedly is a feature of this camera.

I have the following for instance and it doesn't work.

FTP SERVER: my.ftp.server also tried ftp://my.ftp.server
USERNAME: my user name
PASSWORD: my password
ACCOUNT: (blank)
UPLOAD PATH: /campic/
INTERVAL(MS): 5000

Because I can't select the port number nor because there is no log file generated or collected I can't tell if it is even trying to upload an image.

Although the log on my router does not show any attempt of an FTP to the ftp servers IP. I have to assume that this feature doesn't work and if not then how would I get images uploaded to a separate server for viewing? Argh this camera...

Thanks,
Chuck
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Dwayne
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Joined: 10 Sep 2007
Posts: 335

PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Although Chuck and me have just discussed that, I also wanted to post it here for anyone who has similar problems:

After the camera refuses to do the job as being told we let it do someone else. I recommended Chuck to let Blue Iris do the job instead.

Blue Iris can be set up as restreaming service and also upload the camera images to an ftp site. Additionally you can set up overlay texts like the time etc.

I setup a sample and showed it to chuck (with his camera actually) and he agreed to give it a try. I am sure he will share it with you if everything works.
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chuckster
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Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dwayne, you are the man. Took me a while to respond to this post but I wanted to wait until the event we needed it for was overwith.

We installed two NC1600 cameras one with a 60mm lens and one with a 100mm lens (varifocal and auto iris) in 12 volt heated enclosures. We installed two outdoor utility boxes which housed a surge protector, a 4amp 12DV power supply, power supply and a network hub for the wireless antenna. We installed one wireless internet antenna at each location and assigned it a static IP address.

Using Blue Iris we were able to push up a JPG image every 10 seconds to an FTP site. On the event website we used a flash player to play back the JPG images in 10 second intervals. What was nice about this setup was all we had to do was setup the equipment and the event coordinators were able to swap the IP within Blue Iris whenever they wanted to display a different camera on the website. We had no complaints with browser compatibility issues Smile

Cudos to Dwayne, you were a great help and your experience allowed us to inexpensively deliver webcam capability to folks that could not be at the event in our small town.

Chuck
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