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Motion detection with enterprise version

Post new topic   Reply to topic    IP Camera Forum Forum Index -> Milestone XProtect Software
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Joined: 17 May 2008
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2008 4:14 am    Post subject: Motion detection with enterprise version Reply with quote

Has anyone experienced an issue with day mode motion detection threshold being much different than night mode motion detection threshold? Seems to me that if I set the motion detection for night mode to detect a person, then in the day mode the motion detection is way too sensitive and the recording runs constantly even with no object or person setting it off. The threshold difference between night motion and day motion seems large enough that the software should have to compensate for it but does not seem to. If anyone had this issue and worked around this, please tell me how you did it. I cannot seem to find a happy medium.

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Mr Sots

Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 194
Location: UK Midlands

PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've noticed something similar when installing cameras in areas that aren't of particular importance during the hours of darkness so although I may have used a day/night camera, I've not included IR lighting. When the camera switches over to mono, the image can become very noisey which has a seperate controller in Milestone.

If the scene is lit properly with IR for Mono or some form of "white" light for colour then there should be no difference in the motion sensitivity.
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Joined: 17 May 2008
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see. There is no IR but there is a lot of light being thrown out (1200 Watts) and this issue occurrs even 10-20 feet in front of the cam. In the day mode it runs nearly 100% of the time due to false trigger motion detection if the night motion detection threshold is calibrated at night .

This issue of false motion detection that has been causing my hard drives to never stop recording useless data in day mode, has brought to surface yet another issue when I tried to work around my customer seeing the [u][b]"“The server is running out of disk space.” [/b][/u]message right smack on the LIVE video display. Basically this message keeps coming up EVERYDAY because the system was failing to use the other drive to archive even though "Automatic path selection" is checked. The only way to fix this is to overload milestone SW system with a lot of unnecessary hard drive which is a waste of hard drive and money since I am collecting a WHOLE LOT of data I do not need.. I have the system now set to e days of data. That is not a lot and I only have 5 cams and I have 2T bytes of Hard drive. I guess I need 3 T bytes to work aroung their issue. There are other inconsistant issues with archiving not even mentioned here.

Using multple drives to final archive doesn't work well all the time. One example of an issue is If you use 2 different drives and you place some cams data base live (temp) recording folder on 1 drive and the remaining cams data base recording folders on the other drive, then the function of "Automatic path selection" that I thought was designed to allow the SW to use the final archive drive that has space on it, seems to fail to work. Even though I have 600+G of space on one drive and the cams on the other drive that are being data based live recorded to the other drive no longer will use the other drive at all. In other words if the data based live recording folder of all the cameras are split on two drives (Not the operating system drive), then the function of "Automatic path selection" is completely ignored. This is a 100% reproducible issue.

No one from Milestone seems to want to answer to me why. Seems when I find issues that they cannot do anything about, or want to talk about, they go silent or get obviously aggravated to hear my complaint. So I now post it here to see if anyone has seen this. Of cousre if you not using high mega pixel cams you will more than likely not have seen this.

The more I use this SW the more it seems to me that high mega pixel cams(3.1M or greater) have not been extensively tested enough with Milestone SW.
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Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 132
Location: Beaverton, OR

PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


I'm sorry to hear that you don't feel like you're getting quality support from Milestone. I have to disagree, and I would like to detail the issues you've reported and the answers/solutions provided.

Issue #1 - Motion detection sensitivity delta between Day/Night

Due to the nature of the motion detection performed by our software (gray-scale pixel based), and the fact that sometimes there are significant differences in contrast between day and night images, and certain cameras have problems with video noise in low-light, there are times when the correct sensitivity during the day will be too insensitive at night, and the correct sensitivity at night will be too sensitive during the day. However, this is usually when lighting is poor and/or the camera itself does not have good low-light quality (noisy/grainy images). We have not had one report of problems configuring sensitivity to suit normal and low-light recording except for yours but, despite your perception, it is being taken seriously and a feature has been added to our internal feature request list.

The feature is the ability to schedule motion sensitivity settings. This is a low-priority feature compared to many of the other features which we are continuously working on, so it likely will not make it into the software for a few versions and since Enterprise does not lend itself to something like this without drastic GUI and back-end changes, it will likely be reserved as a Corporate feature. While this is not necessarily the answer you wanted to hear, in my opinion it does not mean that you've received bad support. And when you think about it, since most other installers have been able to configure outdoor day/night recording then you have other options - improve the lighting, contact the camera manufacture for help in optimizing the image for day/night, and then adjust the motion sensitivity.

In the motion sensitivity dialog, there are two adjustments. Noise sensitivity, and pixel threshold. The top slider adjusts noise sensitivity, but most basically, it adjusts how much an individual grayscale pixel must change before the pixel is considered "changing". The bottom slider determines how many total pixels should change for the software to detect the changing pixels as motion (object size). So really the object size, or "motion sensitivity" slider should never change once it is considered correct, then you would only need to adjust the noise sensitivity. I'm confident that a happy medium can be found in with the proper lighting.

Issue #2 - Low Disk Space/Archive settings

In Enterprise 6.5 a new low disk space threshold has been introduced which is 10% disk space remaining. Unfortunately when recording to large drives/arrays, this is met well before the disk should be considered full, and the threshold will be removed in a future service release. This is the root of your second problem since the way Dynamic Archiving is designed is technically not the issue.

The unfortunate problem you are running into is that you are not using Dynamic Archiving quite like it was designed. Dynamic Archiving is really designed for systems where you are recording to a smallish local drive and archiving to multiple network attached storage units. For your application it would probably be best to split your cameras between the two drives and archive to the same path as recording for every camera. This requires a little bit of balancing, but it fits your application the best. Besides, if you are recording/archiving to single drives instead of an array, you are best served by avoiding file transfers between the drives as much as possible. Your megapixel cameras generate a lot of data, and absolutely will dominate the entirety of the non-sequential R/W throughput of a single physical drive.

Once again, I'm sorry if you feel Milestone Support has not lived up to your expectations with our advanced and complimentary support. I know that I have personally forwarded your feature requests to the correct channel internally as well as provided advanced measurements of disk throughput and personalized explanations of software features and settings which are publicly documented. Our support group is alway happy to receive suggestions for improvement of our complimentary technical support provided to partners and integrators.
Support Engineer
Milestone Systems Inc.
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