Canon VB-C50i versus Axis 213 PTZ

[adam]

Does anyone have any experience with either of these? I need a high quality PTZ with IR and both of these are nice cameras on paper, but I wanted to know from someone with first hand experience. I'm particularly interested in the quality of the video - MJPEG versus MPEG-4, and how well the standard (and advanced) features are implemented in each (e.g., motion detection, event/trigger notification, FTP, SMTP etc.).

I have used and seen first hand Canon cameras and they have very good optics. I have never seen or used an Axis camera, though I do have on order the 207W.

Much thanks in advance for any information!

[adam]

Come on, not a SINGLE person has any experience with either of these cameras and wishes to share their opinion? Surely, there are some people out there that have tried either or both of these cameras, no?

After looking at the two models, it appears to me that they're made by the same OEM - they look the same and have pretty much the exact same feature set. So in liu of a actual experience with these two models, would anyone care to comment on how either of these two companies rate on feature implementation, support, and client software? I know Axis specializes in network cameras, but Canon sure has been in the business (at optics and surveillance cameras) much longer.

Thanks!

[georged]

In searching for products I'm slowly discovering that there are few manufacturers with a lot of packagers and resellers. Most of the security industry is still mired in CCTV technology with little attention being paid to IP systems unless one is a big potential customer. Getting information for a small system is seemingly not worth their time.

[John_IPTech_UK]

I have seen and used both of these cameras and I have a feeling they are OEM. I cannot comment on the software with the Canon as I have only ever used the Canon when I visted Milestone as they use one in there demo kit. I have a 213 in our demo suite and its a good PTZ camera. I would question the usage of the camera as the IR range can be limited.

What sort of distance do you want to cover at night? You may need to look at dedicated IR solutions and a pure auto switching day/night PTZ such as the cameras below:

Axis: 214, 232D+
Sony: RZ25, RZ30, RX550
JVC VNC625U, VNC 655U
Panasonic BBHCM381



John

[adam]

John,

Thanks for the info. I am aware of the limited IR range of both of these models. I will supplement with an IR illuminator, but the built in will be decent to use as a "spot light" up to about 10 feet (3 m).

What do you think about the firmware and feature implementation on the Axis (213)? I just got the 207W and have to say I'm not all that impressed with the build quality and software features. I'm hoping that it's not indicative of the higher priced models like the 213.

I really just need a good quality, stable, IP camera that can reliably be on 24/7 with minimal reboots.

[John_IPTech_UK]

Sorry for the delayed response been away for work this week.

Axis cameras are the most stable network cameras available in the UK. They recover very well and you should encounter very little problems with them hence why they are probably the market leader for commercial IP cameras.

The IR for the 213 will be fine at 3M. One thing that makes or brakes a CCTV install and is the most critical component for a decent quality picture is light. If you get the lighting wrong it doesn't matter if you get a £200 camera or a £1000 camera the picture wont be great. A more expensive camera may provide a better picture at low light conditions but the picture will still be poor.

I have a Axis 232D+ and a Sony RZ25 on my desk for testing. These are both £1200+ cameras and the picture in room light is not that good. Put them in mono and the picture is perfect in every detail.

I would suggest looking at the scene you want to record and ensure you have the best lighting for what you want to record. IR has its drawbacks and can affect the quality of the picture with CS mount lenses on box cameras IP or analogue. IR light can cause cameras to be out of focus as the focal length for visable light is different to IR

A PTZ should recover from the change. One thing to point out is the IR cut filter on the 213 is manual and not automatic. This means you would have to manually change the camera to us IR and the image to mono.

I have the 207W next to me which I have been testing the compression and picture quality on for a project with 500 of them. These are being connnected to a satalite from 500 locations back to a central point. The 207 is the base camera for Axis and compared to the other cameras available is a value solution.

If you compare this camera to other camaras at this price point the 207 will come out on top. This camera is probably the one camera you will find looking over most IT comms rooms around the globe. I know loads of companies who have these installed.

I agree as cameras go it's small, looks like a webcam (which I think is poor for a commmercial install) but the picture quality, price and reliability makes up where looks fail! I promise I don't work for Axis , but they are good little cameras.



John

[adam]

John, thanks for the input.

I actually now have th Canon VB-C50i and a few things I'm not thrilled about:

1. The IR cut filter is LOUD! Forget about applications that need to be covert. I have never heard such a loud cut filter on any camera.

2. The Pan/Tilt is not as quiet as I am used to on Sony cams. My Canon rep assures me this is "normal" operation. Again, not great if don't want to draw attention to the camera everytime you Pan or Tilt.

3. And this is a big one for me and is the same for the Axis 207W, which really isn't necessarily they're fault... I can not for the life of me, get these cameras accessible outside of the network. I have tried everything with port forwarding, etc and nothing works. I have even put one of them in the DMZ which is completely open to the outside, and I still cannot access them remotely. Now, I have about 7 other cameras of various manufacturers all on the same network using port forwarding and they all work flawlessly. Any ideas? I'm about ready to return the Axis simply because for ~$275 it's not worth my time and trouble to get it to work. But I'm hoping Canon support can help, but I suspect they're just going to blame it on my router. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

[John_IPTech_UK]

I have noticed the cut filters are load in most cameras although more often they are in housings so you don't hear them.

I have posted an answer for you other queries. I am about for an hour or so if you need some help.

John

[skylercall]

[Josh]

As long as the gateway setting on the camera points to the IP of your firewall, you should be able to access it from the WAN side as long as all the appropriate ports are forwarded.

If you're not sure what ports the camera is using, try this...

while the camera is open and streaming to your PC on the LAN side, from the command line, type "netstat -anb"

You will get a list of all the open ports on your PC, the IP it is connected to, and what application is using it.

You look through the results for the IP address of your camera and observe which ports you are connected to on that IP. Make sure these ports are forwarded in your firewall.

When all else fails - re-read the manual and call the manufacturer
_________________
Support Engineer
Milestone Systems Inc.