Beginner with some questions and pics

[m1chael]

All-

New to the forum but have been lurking around quite a bit. I am somewhat of a newbie when it comes to ip cams and surveillance as a whole. Currently I have some older Lorex analog cams and want to upgrade my system to ip. On other posts I have read about some different companies such as Mobotix (most likely out of my price range), Axis, Panny (leaning towards these), and Acti. The information that johnny and bullwinkle in particular has been quite helpful. I was on a few websites and have my eye on the Panny 531 but also know they have a newer 735 out now as well. I also wouldn’t mind saving some money on the 511 for my front porch since it’s covered from the elements. Features I would like to have is PTZ, POE, and good at night. Right now I am about at my wits end because our current setup is pretty much useless at night. I can’t see hardly anything!

I do know that POE is most likely the way to go and I will not be doing wireless (want a constant secure signal). I also have an older pc laying around that I will be converting to a NVR due to a lot of the components were given to me. I was planning on running some software such as Blue Iris and recording the data on a 500GB HDD. I will be attaching pics to this thread so you can see first hand of my exact situation. First pic will be of the driveway that I would like to cover from right in from of the fence all the way to the side of the garage where the personnel door is located. Second pic will be of the front porch that is fully covered and protected quite good from the elements other than the birds…LOL

Please let me know where I am going wrong or whatever other suggestions you may have for my particular situation. Oh and I did mention the panny cams that I was interested in so that pretty much gives you a price point but I also feel a little uneasy spending that much. I would like to get away with maybe 300-400 for the driveway cam (due to paying extra for the benefits of having an outdoor model) and maybe 200-300 for the porch cam (due to this being protected and possibly using an indoor model).

Thanks for your assistance……

Driveway pic:



Porch pic:

[buellwinkle]

The 735 does not have a zoom despite there advertising. What it does is that it steps the resolution down by doing a crop of the 1MP image. So at best it's a digital zoom. A decent PTZ with megapixel resolution can set you back a few grand so it may pay to have two or three non PTZ cameras and have them record independently. PTZ is great if you want to view live video and move the camera around, but most of the time (99.999%) you will not be using PTZ features.

I like the ACTi 1231 because it has built in IR led's, has like a 4x manual zoom, is PoE, 1.3MP, day/night and has good support, free NVR software that's better in many ways than BlueIris and has an iPad app for viewing the cameras remotely. I got rid of BlueIris as it was using up too many CPU cycles, the ACTi software runs 20% busy compared to 100% busy on BlueIris.

In contrast, the Panny is a day only camera, you can't use IR lighting even if you wanted to. The lens does have some limited pan/tilt, but zero zoom. Also, for some reason, it only records on the SD card in VGA resolution and you have to remove the SD card to view it which is odd.
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[m1chael]

[m1chael]

buellwinkle-

Just wanted to add, I was looking at the Vivotek (specifically IP8332) and was wondering how that would compare to the Acti that you suggested? It is a little cheaper but seems to get decent reviews?

Thanks,
Michael

[buellwinkle]

Vivotek is a less expensive brand than ACTi but you get what you pay for. The quality is inconsistent, software is buggy and support is spotty. Same with Messoa and Geovision. They look the same, but not the same.

I used BlueIris for a while with my cameras, but I have a small Atom based processor and the video from 6 cameras overwhelmed it and was running 100% and was causing issues. Other than that, I loved BlueIris. I switched to the free ACTi Enterprise NVR and it ran 20% busy with the same cameras. I could have upgraded to a larger computer, but that would have cost money, where the free software did the trick.

The trick I use to save money on cameras, cheeper than wholesale is to keep an eye on ebay because sometimes integrators overbuy cameras to get better pricing and to cover then butts on large projects in case a camera is bad. Then they dump them on ebay cheap. Last one I got was the TCM-1231 and paid $330 and it was brand new. Another time I got an ACM-1231 for $299 used. From my distributor, I believe they run about $425ish and I got some that way.
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[m1chael]

buellwinkle-

Thanks again for your reply...I really appreciate the assistance....

Couple more questions....Thanks for the idea of trying to find the cams a little cheaper online. How does the 1431 compare to the 1231? Would you suggest that as well if a good price can be had?

Also, just wanted to follow up on my previous question regarding cat 5 cabling. For my applications, do I need to run special "outdoor" cable or can I get away with reg cat 5? Also can I run cat 6 instead?

Thanks,
Michael

[buellwinkle]

The 1431 is just like the 1231 except it has a high quality but low resolution (VGA/D1) sensor that has better low light capability than the 1231. So it's 0.3 MP of high quality vs. 1.3 MP of average quality.

In my house I use regular cat5, nothing special. In commercial environments where there's long underground runs, I've used burial grade cat5e (shielded and coated internally with grease). 1000' spool of cat5 runs $50-60, burial grade costs about $200ish for 500'. I make each run a different color as much as possible to make troubleshooting easier. All cameras I've used are 100mb/s, so no need for cat6.
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[m1chael]

Why am I still on the fence between going with the Panny 735 (due to the PTZ and smaller form factor) versus something like the Acti 1231 or 1431?

I have been reading a lot of posts on this forum and on sites like Amazon and people stated that the Panny gave decent night time recording when they had a motion light near it which kind of takes care of the issue? I have also seem some links and pics posted and the 735 doesn't look all that bad at night time....not sure what I am missing or why I keep wanting to come back to this specific cam?

Thoughts / Comments / Suggestions? Sorry to be harping on this but it is a big investment and I just want to make sure I am getting the most bang for my buck I guess.

Thanks.....

Michael

[buellwinkle]

You can use motion detect flood lights with any day only camera and that will work, but it's annoying in some cases (lights shining in your bedroom, neighbors bedroom). For less money, why not have a 4x manual zoom, built in IR, day/night IR cut filter, 1/3" sensor. free software, aluminum body (instead of plastic)?

Also, ask Johnny, he had the 735 and replaced it with the Axis M1114e, again, much better low light capability, very small form factor, varifocal lens (I believe 3x zoom) and lower price. This is a day camera, so like the 735, you'll need the motion detect lights or a constant porch light at night.
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[m1chael]

buellwinkle-

Thanks for the response...sorry to be going back and forth. I think with that explanation, I need to the "right" thing and go forth quality instead of PTZ features.

I will go ahead and look into getting the Acti (either 1231 or currently I have my eye on a good deal on the 1431).

Thanks again, I will let you know when I purchase them!

Michael

[m1chael]

buellwinkle and all-

Few more thoughts I have had over the past few days. Looking at the pics I attached on my first post above, I will still do a "bullet" type cam for that situation (front porch) because there is really no need for a PTZ or anything else I wouldn't think. The only thing I need to cover would be mainly the front door and maybe a little bit of the sidewalk leading up to the front door which is in the same general direction that the camera will be facing.

But, I may have had a change of heart on the driveway cam (second picture), right now I have a "bullet" type cam installed there but after speaking with my wife, we were talking about adding another "bullet" cam right next to that but pointing to the backyard / backside of the house. We have a few doors on that side of the house we would like to cover as well. So, instead of having two "bullet" type cameras at that location, wouldn't it be more feasible to put some type of PTZ dome cam at that location?

If so, then the cam would need to meet the following requirements:

-PoE (no electrical source closeby)
-Full 360 degrees
-Outdoor

I was looking to get the Acti 1231 for the front door and was looking on their website for something to fit the above description for the driveway but did not see anything? The ones that I did see "speed dome", require AC to power the unit.

Suggestions / Comments / Etc.....

Thanks,
Michael

[m1chael]

Anyone...bump...please?

[buellwinkle]

PTZ cameras are mostly intended for someone that's doing live monitoring. You can setup a patrol where it stops at different locations looking for motion, but no really suited for home surveillence. They have ones that do tracking and/or software that will control the camera and track an object that's moving, but that gets more complicated and expensive.

Least expensive PTZ from Axis that is PoE is probably the P5514-e. They have models that have higher resolution like the P5534-e if needed. They do make a cheaper 215-e but it's not PoE.
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[m1chael]

[buellwinkle]

A good PTZ with 1MP resolution will cost about $2,000. Or you can buy four 1MP cameras for $500 each, each one streaming that image all the time vs. a PTZ who's streaming time is divided by the number of stops on patrol less the time it takes to pan. Then you have the potential for PTZ motor issues, all those moving parts can't last as long as 4 fixed cameras.

But there is a case for PTZ, for example, if you own a store with a huge parking lot, a PTZ can zoom in from quite a distance. In a house, with a typical residental lot, 18x zoom is overkill.
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