Confusion on AP set-up

[btos]

I've got six ip cameras on a router on one side of the street, with monitoring software installed on a computer there. They are all wireless cameras. On the other side of the street I need three more cameras- two with ethernet cabling and one wireless. Without running cable across the street, how can I make a network? I have an Engenius 3500 ap/ bridge but am unsure how to get the wired cameras into it, since I believe it needs to be hard wired into the router, which is on the opposite side of the street... Should I just go completely wireless with the system instead of hardwiring it? I'm maxxed out now with the router- six cameras already. If I hardwire the AP into the router, I should be able to detect the other cameras...right? Is there a way to get the other network going with wired cameras or should I just keep it all wireless?

To improve the quality of the signals, later on I plan on hardwiring all the camras on one side ot the street into a switch that leads direclty into the router.
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[ICUSecurity]

You should have all wired cameras on one side of the street, all wired cameras on the other side of the street, run them into a *Switch* not a router. Then have 2 wireless clients acting as a bridge.

There is no-reason to wire across the street. You just need a good wireless system. Once again, i suggest that you list exactly what you have and a blueprint of what you are trying to do...

-Chris
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[btos]

OK, thanks Chris- for taking the time...surprised anyone bothers reading all this.

Here's the blueprint:
http://realpanoramas.com/upload/content2/Showcase/Cam%20Locations/1-floorplan-layout.jpg
(missing a ptz)

Here's the current inventory:

5 Vivotek IP6114 wireless fixed lens cams (3 to 6 more to order- wired this time)
2 Vivotek IP6117 wireless ptz (must have)
2 ptz dome and 4 fixed enclosures w/ heater/ blowers
2 Netopia dsl modems/ routers
Wireless Router: Dlink WBR2310 with a Hawking 500mw amp to an antenna mast outside.
9db omni directional antennas w/ rpsma pigtails throughout the wireless array
Engenius 3500 EXT access point/ bridge, poe w/ 9db omni directional antenna
Dlink 2100 acess point
3 Meraki APs (experimental betas, maybe for mesh- unknown if useable - poor support)
Two dsl connections- one on each location
One central computer with monitoring software (hardwired to Dlink router)
A 1000 foot roll of direct bury cat5e cable with good intentions
An 8 port switch
Obvioulsy all this isn't deployed but you asked...

The current wireless router scenario works but with glitches (you must have a router to have ip cameras). I believe the Dlink router is maxxed out maybe (I'll find out when I deploy the sixth wireless cam on it)...signals now fade out intermittently and I expect they will continue this until I manage to direct wire the cameras at a later date. I also need to hardwire 3 office computers into the Netopia router to get them off the wireless Dlink router.

I'd rather take a beating than install another wireless system of this size. I went into this with enthusiasm but the thrill is gone because of the misleading wireless advertising hype being promoted as golden by the manufacturers and sales reps (802.11g- bs). Yeah man, they will sell you 20 cams and laugh at you... tell you to hire someone because they want to sell you more stuff to experiment with...Networking so many wireless cameras is a bear if you've never done it before. No one wants to explain how to do it - you figure it out as you go. I should write short stories and be more creative than this. I'm not an engineer by trade.

The end game looks to be clear...wire the all damn things into switches on both sides of the street and wirlessly transmit the four cams- wirelessly- from across the street into the router at the central location for monitoring. End results looks to be switched cams on both sides of the street, with wireless connections, client- bridge, access point- hell, I don't know what you call em...One wireless client (whatever that is) to the central location. I'm known as the mad scientist at the site...I'm getting mad alright but at least they are willing to pay for my experiments awhile longer...It is nice to have a sponsor.
_________________
Action combined with knowledge is real power

[ICUSecurity]

Ok, first think you need to do is a sight survey.

Go into the engenious 3500, there should be a setting that lets you select if it is a client, a AP or a bridge. Select client, then on the left under wireless look for the option on one of those pages that says "Sight Survey" see if you are getting any traffic other then your equipment on the 802.11 network.

Now, I am guessing that the "Delay" and "Signal" issues are because you have an amp on the Dlink router. (Always a bad idea) Also, you lose 5dbi per 3ft of SMA wire. So, if your wire is more then 6 feet long, there is your signal problems. If you want to use SMA antenna, you need to convert to and from Bulk-N's

Second, if you have DSL in each building, why are you even trying to go wireless? Why not just use the DSL to connect the two buildings?

Third, if you insist on going wireless, you would use it just as if it was a main switch. *SWITCH* NOT ROUTER! You plug all cameras from building B (wireless building) into a switch, then plug your 3500 into that switch.

Then on the other side, you plug all of your cameras + the PC into the Dlink. If you dont have enough room, get a switch, plug the switch into the router, then fill up the router and switch.

And that is it!

If I were you, I would ditch that Dlink Access Point. They are crap, and when you add an amp to crap, you get loud crap.

I have a few AP's for sale, check the For Sale section.

If you insist on using the cameras, as wireless cameras you need a 2 channel Access Point. I have those as well, but I don't think I listed them in there.

-Chris
_________________
For Sale
32 Aimetis Standard Channel - $90 ea
OR buy with servers (Dell) and save!!

4 Channel Video-Insight Software - $350
8 Channel Video-Insight Capture Card - 1,000

[btos]

OK, I appreciate your input Chris but I'm a little testy before coffee.

In the Engenius 3500 AP, there's no kind of "client" setting in there, only bridge or access point mode. I took it down because at the site, I couldn't get into it to edit the settings...talk about crap. I now have it at the shop to try and get into it again with the laptop. The Dlink ap was either lost or stolen from the site- still in the box.

Without the amp on the Dlink router, the signal was crap. The Hawking amp really improved the signal for the already installed wireless cameras.

Site survey showed some weak signals around the area- something to be expected in an environment surronded by condos.

It took me three months to finally find an rpsma cable that is 18 inches long...they are 20 bucks each, as are the ten footers (I've actually got one set of 20 footers) but they are already deployed...expensive but a necessary evil to get the wireless ouside of the enclosures. Ridiculous prices for these crappy cables that interfere with signal strength. The vendors have no mention or recommendations on what to use to get outside the enclosures.

I have no idea what "N bulk" means. I've seen N connectors combined with others in pigtails and in adapters. They don't fit without a convoluted mess of searching websites for adapters and male to female fits, which, when they arrive, are always the wrong ones! THAT is why I opted for the straight rpsma plug to jack antennas...simplicity. No tutorials available anywhere on what to do for the antenna pigtails, which really aggravates the hell outta me- the layman....you get the usual enineering jargon, loaded with acronyms.

No clue on what you mean by using the two dsl lines to connect the two locations...lines are separate numbers- one is set-up with a static ip and the other one was just put in.

"Third, if you insist on going wireless, you would use it just as if it was a main switch. *SWITCH* NOT ROUTER! You plug all cameras from building B (wireless building) into a switch, then plug your 3500 into that switch"

Chris, I've got no idea what you mean. The Engenius is a bridge/ router, not a switch...there's only one ethernet connection into it...it's an outdoor unit- must be hardwired to work wirelessly. The recommended set-up is to make a subnet mask setting on the ap and let the camera know about it...Should have returned it but am now stuck with it.

I'll get my coffee and sift through your post again to see if I can make any better sense of it. I decided not to throw any more money into wireless- that is nonsense and the reason I bought the cat5e cable. I am going to return one of those IP6117 Vivotek ptz cams for it's continued spaz attacks that lose the ability to completely pan to the full 270 degrees. Thanks again.
_________________
Action combined with knowledge is real power

[ICUSecurity]

A switch is a little box like a router.. or a hub...

With 18" of RPSMA wire you are losing almost 1/4th your signal.

In the 3500 bridge and client modes are combined.

Make sure you are not on the same channel as other APs in the area, use netstumbler if needed.

A Bulkhead, is just a term from N-male and N-female adapters.

To make the network you want, you need to replace the engenius, with a dual channel radio.

These are all IP cameras, you can access them across the internet,... It might be your easiest route.

-Chris
_________________
For Sale
32 Aimetis Standard Channel - $90 ea
OR buy with servers (Dell) and save!!

4 Channel Video-Insight Software - $350
8 Channel Video-Insight Capture Card - 1,000

[btos]

All access points are not created equal or described clearly- especially those Engenius devices. When I bought that Engenius 3500, I thought it was an access point for outdoor use...the description of the unit was so vauge that I had no idea what it actually was for, only that it was a bridge or access point, both which I thought I could use. What I got was NOT what I needed (according to you). I can sell it on Ebay... What is a dual channel radio? Sounds like a true wireless access point, unlike the lie that I bought. Couldn't I get the unit to work by hardwiring it into the router and moving it to the power pole close to the edge of the street with a good antenna that aims toward the other cameras (which would need to be wireless to see it)? I could swap cameras out from one side of the street (to replace them with hardwired switch). Then put the wireless cams on the distant side of the street from the router. Then I'll have to deal with the same wireless cabling mess on the oppostie side of the street, only on a smaller scale. Still got to put together an estimate and not sure I want to go through that though...Epic.
_________________
Action combined with knowledge is real power

[ICUSecurity]

The 3500 isn't a bad product, I actually use 3220's for small camera usage.


I like to talk to my clients about wireless in terms of hoses. Picture your setup. You have a single hose running from one side of the street, to the other. That is a bridge. The communication happens between the AP and the 3500. What you want to do is add wireless cameras to that. But see, you have no where to plug into.

A 2 channel radio will open a line between each camera and 1 channel, then to the AP on another channel....

-Chris
_________________
For Sale
32 Aimetis Standard Channel - $90 ea
OR buy with servers (Dell) and save!!

4 Channel Video-Insight Software - $350
8 Channel Video-Insight Capture Card - 1,000

[btos]

The 3500 is configured as an AP right now but also can be a configured as a bridge. The scenario is to extend the AP from the router (which you refer to as an AP). The router is in the central location- hardwired to the monitoring software on the same side of the street. This will give me two access points, one of which can be placed closer to the camras on the opposite side of the street, even though it is still on the same side of the street as the router/ ap. One ap has cameras on it from one side of the street, while the other ap/ router has the cameras from the other side of the street. Does that make sense?

I do know that because of it's design, the 3500 AP, must be hardwired into the router, for it to work, which is limiting my ability to move it to the opposite side of the street. In your scenario, if I bought a 2 channel AP/ radio , then I could move it over to the opposite side of the street (closer to the other cameras), without being hardwired into the router on the other side. This would diminish the camera's bandwidth by half but still give my cameras (only 3) enough bandwidth to display the feeds into the monitoring software across the street- wirelessly. I don't have this equipment...

I'm not willing to buy another piece of wireless hardware because of the future plans of hardwiring all the cameras on one side of the street. I should be able to use the 3500 as an AP (instead of a bridge) in the first scenario, right?
_________________
Action combined with knowledge is real power

[ICUSecurity]

Sure, you can do it that way....

Now how do you make the 2 separate networks communicate with each other?

on one side you have your 3500, connected to all its cameras.

On the other side you have the Dlink, to all its cameras

But you can not make the two communicate.....

It does NOT need to be hardwired into a router. It needs to be attached to a switch.

-Chris
_________________
For Sale
32 Aimetis Standard Channel - $90 ea
OR buy with servers (Dell) and save!!

4 Channel Video-Insight Software - $350
8 Channel Video-Insight Capture Card - 1,000

[btos]

If it was hardwired into the router, it would already be on the network! You must mean that it is hardwired into a camera or switch from the other side of the street. Nevermind...

It does not matter... I tried to get into the device to re-deploy it today but it appears to be malfuctioning. I cannot get it to even show up on my laptop. There's a way to get into it but only with a serial cable, which I do not have. I've had it with the Engenius brand. I had similar problems with their usb nic. That device completely froze up a new dual processor Dell PC. I will send the 3500 back, if it's still under warranty. I've also got a usb network card that's been used once... I need to get rid of. Then I have these 3 Meraki APs to get rid of. What have you got for an outdoor ap?
_________________
Action combined with knowledge is real power

[ICUSecurity]

For what you need?

You either need 2 APs and a client (Bridge) or a 2channel AP.

If you go with the 2 channel, you will need outdoor antennas.

I think your problem is you do not realize what a switch is, and you are not using them....

-Chris
_________________
For Sale
32 Aimetis Standard Channel - $90 ea
OR buy with servers (Dell) and save!!

4 Channel Video-Insight Software - $350
8 Channel Video-Insight Capture Card - 1,000

[btos]

Wireless cameras were requested by the client. Wireless doesn't use switches. I don't understand your evaluation. Wireless is what it is. Switched networks are more efficient but not practical in a construction environment. I've told the client about the limited numbers of cameras per ap. I can deploy more aps or switch the network when construction allows. When the network is finished, a wireless bridge of the two camera arrays will complete the network, when the cameras are eventually hardwired into switches. Yes, I will need outdoor aps. I've got an indoor router, with an outdoor antenna that is serving as an ap now. I'll need another ap for the other side though.
_________________
Action combined with knowledge is real power

[ICUSecurity]

You can have 3 types of wireless setups, lets just ignore a mesh node setup for now.

You can have Point to Point, or Point to Multi Point.

On one side of the street you have your Engenious AP talking to several wireless cameras. That is point to multi point.

So what is it that you want the dlink router to do? Go point to point with the engenious, but you cant have that.. You cant get both a point to point and point to multipoint out of a single AP.

-Chris
_________________
For Sale
32 Aimetis Standard Channel - $90 ea
OR buy with servers (Dell) and save!!

4 Channel Video-Insight Software - $350
8 Channel Video-Insight Capture Card - 1,000

[btos]

The hardest part about wireless networks is planning it. The plan was to have point to multi-point on both sides of the street with two devices, one, the router, on the monitoring side and two, an ap aimed at the opposite side of the street but on the same side of the street -aiming at the other camera array and networked with cat5e cable directly into the network through the Dlink router. That should work in my minds eye. Of course the wired plan did not work out so I modified the plan to use wireless throughout, until I get a switched set-up. I revised the blueprint to clarify:

http://realpanoramas.com/upload/content2/Showcase/Cam%20Locations/1-floorplan-layout.jpg

I would have two multi point set-ups for two separate camera arrays on opposite sides of the street with the connected aps/ router on different channels but direct wired to each other. If I get the Engenius working again and get it connected into the router and sending a signal on a different channel to the other side of the street, shouldn't it work?
_________________
Action combined with knowledge is real power